Post-Ep Dish - S5.09 - No Good Deed

[elrhiarhodan]

I think this is the episode we've been waiting for all Season. I'm actually terrified. In fact, I almost don't want to do this - I don't know where it's going or what will happen (I'm pretty unspoiled.

And without further adieu…



Poor Neal, he's heading for a fall. But what a sexy way to go!

Finally mentioned the two-mile radius.

Yes, Neal - your life complicated

FULL BODY NEKKIDNESS

He's trying to protect Rebecca, but somehow I feel she doesn't need protecting.

She's way too casual with Moz's reveal.

Jones has an action figure collection?

Rare Books 'Becca? Cute, really cute, Moz.

Did Mozzie just pull out a dildo? A dildo gun?

Did Neal think that Peter isn't ever not going to be relentless?

Stolen more times than second base at a Cubs game. Hee.

Oooh, Peter is SO suspicious.

Are we getting to see Elizabeth's office?

Mutually assured destruction is a powerful motivator.

And Mozzie has a regular lunch table and date with Elizabeth.

Moz and Peter - good scene. And Peter all but blackmailing Mozzie. LOVE IT!

And well, Hello, Estelle!

And thanks to ladyrose42 , for saying that Neal's house of cards is falling.

Neal is actually vibrating, he's so nervous. (So am I). Neal doesn't know what to do, except, as theatregirl7299 points out, Peter has to be protected at all costs.

I hope that Peter feels the same way about Neal - and at the end of the day - he remembers that they are friends above anything else.

Neal is such a master of misdirection.

And Mozzie in the middle of everything. (Okay, it's a finger not a dildo).

(Oy vey, I am tense).

Rebecca has no boundaries, apparently. Not even Peter touches Neal's sketchbook. Oh, that came out way dirtier than I intended.

Aww, Neal doesn't want to turn Rebecca into a criminal. But she's playing him like a freakin' Stradivarius. He's giving her the whole plan. As theatregirl7299 says, he wasn't even this open with Kate - but upon reflection, he lost Kate because he lied to her. So maybe this honesty is a lesson he's learned.

It doesn't seem like the time to be such a good student.

And Peter being worried and suspicious. And YAY for El being concerned about Neal.

Awww Moz - "You go girl" - I always wanted to say that!

And Rebecca seems way to good at the short con.

Mozzie as a Mason! Gotta love it.

Neal falling! Not jumping! What would a season be without Neal's acrobatics?

And how could Neal forget that Peter's always watching? The anklet will always trip him up. How, after so many years, can he forget that? Maybe, subliminally, he wants Peter to catch him.

And the cronut makes its appearance. Which Peter, foolishly gives to Jones.

OMG - Peter, what are you doing?

NO NO NO NO NO

Peter blowing up at Neal - he's right - he's put himself on the line for Neal so many times, it almost cost hi

And Neal - finally, finally telling Peter what he did and why. My heart is breaking

"I did the right thing."

Their faces - this wrecks me. Not in a back way - but like how do they recover from this. Ever?

Elizabeth - you are EPIC. Owning up to what you asked Neal to do. Believing that what Neal did was right.

Okay - maybe they can be healed?

And is Peter willing to let this go?

Blahblahblah about the window.

"My office, now."

Peter, no no no no no….

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


Okay folks - I know there's a temptation to bash Peter - for being so cruel and cold and mean to Neal. Telling him that he should never have expected him to be anything but a criminal. But let's not give into that temptation, okay? For the sake of my heart and my stress levels. Yes, we can discuss Peter and what he said, but please be fair and respectful.

My heart is hurting too much. Please.

Comments

[winterstar95.livejournal.com]

I thought it was a very good episode (so yay! probably the best of the season for me). Yes, Peter was cold and calculating but Peter also has to own up to the fact that when he wants to stretch the law and walk the line he does for the greater good. Neal did the same thing (though admittedly much more dramatically).

Still don't trust Becca (is that what we are calling her now). I think the next episode is going to show that (I think she is working with Hagen even with the preview for next episode).

Yes much better on the weight scale - though I have to admit I miss Diana!

[elrhiarhodan]

I thought the episode was excellent and heartbreaking - I mean I knew that Peter had to find out, that he'd be furious and that he's going to have to make some very hard choices.

I'm definitely with you about Rebecca. Either she's working for Hagen, or he's working for her.

And I miss Diana, too.

[theatregirl7299]

Peter's voice when he says the line about Neal being a criminal - that is the voice of someone who has put his faith in people and things like his job and has had his heart broken. It totally wrecked me. It echoes his comment in the last episode about never thinking that he's good enough.

[elrhiarhodan]

I agree - he sounded so defeated, so broken. And Neal - he's going to be bitter and angry and feel justified about everything he's done.

I am wrecked, too.

[eldorah.livejournal.com]

Hope it's okay to join in the conversation here a bit even though I'm new to the community... But I agree with what theatregirl said above and had the same reaction - the voice Peter used when he was talking to Neal was so raw. He was heartbroken. And Neal was so heartbroken as well, because in his mind, he did the right thing, the good thing. I'm so heartbroken for the both of them.

[elrhiarhodan]

Oh, I am THRILLED to have new voices comment here! You are so very welcome to contribute to the discussion.

I'll comment more re Peter and his anguish tomorrow, just wanted to say hello and welcome!

[eldorah.livejournal.com]

Thank you! =) I appreciate the welcome and can't wait to read everyone's thoughts on tonight's episode!

[elrhiarhodan]

Yes - Peter is broken. How do you recover from learning that everything you've trusted is based on a lie and a crime?

Even a lie told and a crime committed for the best of reasons.

[love-82.livejournal.com]

I always enjoy your post ep posts but I don't think I have ever really participated before. So I am going to change that.

I think I agree with everything you said. Especially this:

Rebecca has no boundaries, apparently. Not even Peter touches Neal's sketchbook.

I said the exact same thing! Not even Peter has lifted the pages on the sketchbook. Rebecca is so obviously playing him for whatever reason.

I liked this episode. I thought it was a strong one to end on before the break.

I understand why Neal and Peter both feel the way they do. And in regards to Peter - he has pretty much just had his world turned upside down. What he believes in, his core beliefs, failed him. And what he is supposed to stand against, criminal activity, is the reason why he is free and was able to get the promotion. He has a lot to digest and think about and come to terms with.

And character bashing just makes me sad. So before anyone starts bashing any of the characters, I say let the rest of the season and storyline play out first.

I think we all know in the end they will all be there for each other.

[elrhiarhodan]

I was absolutely shocked when Rebecca just waltzed over to Neal's sketchbook and flipped the page. It just screams "wrong" to me.

I am lucky in that most (if not all) of the people who comment here will respect my request not to character bash - and I'm going to stay away from those LJs and sites I know that are going to be very anti-Peter.

[love-82.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I have learned where to avoid so I won't be made sad. It is not like I don't think people can't not like what Peter, or any of them, says or does. I just think people should take into account what is going on in their lives and why they might be feeling or acting that way.

That is why I love coming here. Everyone has intelligent, insightful things to add. And the if their are disagreements they are civil.

[ultracape.livejournal.com]

I just can't get Rebecca at all. Kate had lost everything and even in effect, she also lost Neal, well Nick. Neal came along and showed her a different life and a way to get it back. But come on, you don't work for scum like Adler without getting some of it on you.

Alex was a fence/con/thief herself.

Sara walked the line but she wouldn't cross over, well, kinda sorta, she does, but she's fully cognizent of when and what she's doing. I always felt she was in control of herself.

But Rebecca, I just don't get how she just turns to help someone she hardly knows, a felon, even if it is Neal, and wants to be in on the heist. This is not a game. It's breaking the law.

Okay, my rant is over.

As to the rest of the episode, it should be in the dictionary next to the word "tense." Wow. I was jittery and couldn't figure out why, oh, the show.

I think Peter is paniking and for very good reasons. In order to stay out of prison, he has to break the law, something he's sworn to protect and he takes his vows seriously. The only reason I think that he gets the prosecutor to give up the gold and the fence is for Elizabeth's sake. He's trying to fix things and in order to do that, he's breaking things.

I think Peter acknowledges and values Neal's friendship/love/loyalty, but he's afraid of the consequences to his own values. And well look how he's spun his own moral compass a few times.

Who knows, maybe Neal will finally hit bottom and realize if he wants to change, he's going to have to cut the strings to what is prevening him from doing so.

[meeni (from livejournal.com)]

i agree with you on Rebecca's part..
on one hand i want to think she wants to be in his life fully as much as she can and on the other i've had a bad feeling about her since the start

[elrhiarhodan]

I'm with you re Rebecca - I think the part is well-crafted (or at least better than Kate or Alex), but she's setting off all of the warning bells. I agree that you don't go from hearing that someone's been lying to you about their essential nature (FBI agent v. convicted felon on work release) to jumping their bones.

I agree that Peter's panicking - he's just had the entire foundation of his existence knocked out from under him. I just wished he hadn't been quite to blunt with Neal - not calling him a criminal, but saying he did it "because [he] was a criminal and shame on me for expecting anything else."

That still hurt - because it just DOES. I don't blame Peter for saying that, I'm just sorry that he did.

At least I'll have three weeks to write plenty of episode tags fixing this.

[kanarek13]

Awwwww, so much tension :P And heartbreak!!!

But okay, I went into this episode being 100% convinced that we were gonna need at least a portion if not the entire episode 10 to put the broken pieces back together.

At this point it can really go both ways, I still think a long honest talk could fix this, but they can just as easily drift further apart.

But based on previous experience, I'm staying optimistic, they will find their common ground again, it might be in a very DUH/under the rug sweeping way, but I'll take that anyway :D

Oh, after seeing the promo for episode 10, I'm even more convinced Rebecca is working for Hagen \o/ It would be awesome, though, if this assumption was wrong \o/ Then I would be at a total loss as to what to make of her character :D :D

Awww, the ending was so heartbreaking. Why, oh why do they have to suffer so much *hugs them*

This thought occurred to me. I believe we can say that it's not just Neal's world falling apart this season, Peter's world has been through some heavy earthquakes as well and I kinda think that Peter's "you're a criminal" speech comes from the same place as Neal's "it was there for the taking." So many things have gone wrong, so many things had to be kept a secret and those secrets created misunderstandings, so I think they both feel lost, their believes, the way they approach things, it's all been either put to test or completely broken and they are both looking for a way to make sense of it all again, to find some guidelines, anything that they could hold on to when everything else goes to hell.

But boys, really not the way to do that *pets them*

Peter is trying to force himself to see Neal as a criminal and Neal is trying to force himself to completely embrace his thieving side, but I really hope that deep down inside they both know that bus has left the station a long time ago. Neither of them can go back to the simple uncomplicated agent-criminal relationship. I really, really hope so and it's what I want to believe in.

They need that long talk like WHOA now. I'm looking forward to the next ep, this is a sort of their mid-season finale, so I'm counting on some sort of resolution in ep 10 :D

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

This thought occurred to me. I believe we can say that it's not just Neal's world falling apart this season, Peter's world has been through some heavy earthquakes as well and I kinda think that Peter's "you're a criminal" speech comes from the same place as Neal's "it was there for the taking." So many things have gone wrong, so many things had to be kept a secret and those secrets created misunderstandings, so I think they both feel lost, their believes, the way they approach things, it's all been either put to test or completely broken and they are both looking for a way to make sense of it all again, to find some guidelines, anything that they could hold on to when everything else goes to hell.

This is an extremely interesting and compelling thought. I think you might be on to something here.

Also, I really really hope they DO have that talk now... otherwise, I fear that all the mess that we've seen so far this season will be nothing compared to the finale - when Peter realizes the depth of Neal's deception and just how muc htrouble they're both in after Hagan (and/or Rebecca) puts both him and Neal in an impossible position with seemingly no way out.

[kanarek13]

Awww, thanks :D Yes, they need to talk, damnit :D But that talk needs to be in a quiet environment and after they have calmed down :D

I'm glad my thinky thought at least made some sense *hugs*

Heee :D

[chreesko.livejournal.com]

Peter's world has been through some heavy earthquakes as well and I kinda think that Peter's "you're a criminal" speech comes from the same place as Neal's "it was there for the taking."

I thought this was interesting. During that scene, I could feel Peter's pain, and I think part of his speech to Neal was a way of passing responsibility for the things that happened as a result of him getting arrested. Almost like a little pep talk to himself: this happened because of Neal, because Neal is a criminal. I'm not the one responsible for the fallout of this.

... Although, now that I think about it, responsible isn't exactly the right word. It's more that he's trying to dissociate himself from the illegal actions that were a direct result of his being arrested.

I felt for both of them in that scene. Neither one of them is particularly emotionally mature or good at recognizing what motivates the other, and the outside stresses, coupled with the lack of communication, are just making it worse.

[elrhiarhodan]

It's not that I don't believe that the bromance will be repaired, I just can't see the way it can happen.

And you're absolutely right - Peter's world has been shaken almost beyond repair. And he's reacting to that - everything he believed came from something good and right was based on a lie. And yet - like what's left at the bottom of Pandora's box, he didn't turn Neal in, he didn't turn himself in. It's clear, no matter what, Neal is as much part of his heart as Elizabeth.

We've got three weeks - at least that's plenty of time to get a whole lot of fix it fics in!

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

Uffff!!!! We survived!!! Actually, it was a damn good episode.

Okay, I had a really really BAD feeling about this ep, and the beginning of it made me fear that it would be exactly as I imagined (are we again doing the same mistakes again leading again to a disaster?). Fortunately, for once the show has proven me wrong.

So.

This episode has shown us that when he wants, Peter can play pretty dirty - and I haven't decided yet if that is a good thing or a bad thing. He has directly blackmailed Mozzie (threatening Diana and baby Theo in the process), then he has conned a confession out of Neal and finally he decided to let Deckard be after making the compromise to get the coins. If there was ever any doubt how terrifyingly capable Peter could be if he went dark side, then this episode erased them for me.

But at the same time, I find it hard to begrudge Peter for any of his actions in the episode. And I think that the calculating, somewhat cold and almost ruthless thinking might actually be a good thing if Peter and Neal come face to face with Hagan.

Because let's face it. Neal is extremelly intelligent, but he is emotional and tends to make rash, stupid decisions, expecially when his loved ones get involved. Peter on the other hand has repeatedly proven that (after that inevitable first burst of emotion) he can keep his stuff together, think rationally and make sure everyone goes home safely.

It's what we'we seen in Checkmate. Despite El's life on the line, Peter (with Neal and Mozzie's help) carried out a plan to outsmart Keller and succeeded. And I think this mindset, this rational thinking is exactly what is needed to defeat Hagan (ans, as I believe, Rebecca). Which gives me a bad feeling, knowing that Neal hasn't shared even half of it with Peter. And I think this time, Neal can't do it just with Mozzie and he really needs Peter's help.

Because Mozzie is smart, Mozzie is extremely capable and genious - but he never stops Neal from doing exactly the impulsive, rash things that make everything worse. He just tries to do damage control - but that might not be enough against Hagan.

It is also interesting to watch how much Peter has changed since knowing Neal - again, I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing - but maybe it's necessary. Because Neal always plays these games, and while I get it why he has to do that, it puts Peter in a very difficult place. For a long time, he just watched and cleaned up messes - sometimes begrudgingly, but always willing to restore his friendship with Neal afterwards and give him that one more chance. So to see Peter takes these measures to get the truth and seeing his final confrontation with Neal - I might not like it, but I honestly can't blame him for it and I can totally see where he's coming from.

Enough about the dark side of things - let's proceed to the squee!

ELIZABETH!!!!

Girl, you don't know how much I struggled with liking you this season - because you told Neal to "do whatever it takes" and then acted like it didn't concern you. But seriously - I really needed El to admit to her part in this latest fiasco. I'm not saying it wasn't in character - but seeing Neal blaming himself over Siegel and running around trying to outsmart Hagan (and Peter being suspicious and doubting and hurting), I could hardly look at you on the screen without a frown. I so enjoyed that conversation with Peter - owning up for your part, telling him you believed Neal did the right thing - but also showing Peter a deep love and respect by letting him make his own decision without pushing. Sorry for doubting you - Elizabeth-love, you're back.

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

(2nd half)

Another love of the episode - Peter.
We see him doing some shady stuff, even being somewhat hypocritical. But at the same time, we see so much of his humanity, his inner strenght and vulnerableness - the moment when he realized that it was not justice that set him free but Neal's deception; the way he considers his options, his love for Neal mixed with the feeling of betrayal - oh Peter!!! And then he wants to do the right thing, but there's the law and his family and justice, and Peter's trapped in the middle of it by Neal's (and to a degree El's) choices and actions.

That scene at Neal's appartment - such a superb acting from both Matt and Tim. Neal, earnestly, almost pleadingly - "I did the right thing." - and it's so obvious that Peter disagrees, he doesn't have to say it aloud - and Neal is crushed by that disappointment in Peter, but he still believes that he did what had to be done. I think that scene - allong with the final scene in the office - has shown perfectly the differences between Neal and Peter's sense of morals and of right and wrong, and it was fantastic and completely hearbreaking.

What else is there to be said?

Non-squee - Neal, comitting a crime while wearing the anklet with pastry as an alibi? Seriously? Neal, I don't know what's been going on with you lately, but you've never been this sloppy - and it has to stop. For your sake, Mozzie's, Peter's, El's - get your head back in the game and stop screwing up!


Rebecca! Hmmm. I'll be surprised if she isn't working with Hagan (or even better, she could be the mastermind behind it all). That said, she's an interesting character and even though she's probably setting up Neal for a horrible heartbreak (and possibly setting up Neal, Peter and Moz for prison or worse), I can't help but want to see more of her.

The scene with Mozzie's phone and Neal sending him a pidgeon was great :) Also was happy to see more of Jones, and I liked how the show dealt with Peter¨s prosecutor.

Also that opening scene with Neal's anklet over Rebecca's leg? Sexy :) Need an icon of that :)

Liked the case, liked the chase, loved the whole episode!

[kanarek13]

Oh, excellent points all around. Yes, Peter and his dark side, I'm also not sure if it's a good or a bad side but I completely agree that it might be exactly what is gonna be needed to bring Hagen down.

Oh, those 3 weeks are gonna be torture :D

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

The sad thing is, when Rebecca talked with Neal about how to "fix it", it was exactly what I wanted for him. Not a girlfriend who is constantly judging him, but one who talks to him, to just ask him to tell her the truth, one who will think about his safety. Too bad that she is too perfect to be true.

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

Well, I really liked Rebecca in the previous episodes, but after this one, I don't so much anymore. At this stage, there are two main options - one, she is working for Hagen (or on her own but still for "dark side"), in which case Neal is going to end up heartbroken. On the small chance that she is genuine... then that makes me uncomfortable on a whole new level, because it feels like it's Kate all over again, only worse. Kate never seemed naive, Rebecca on the other hand (if she's not a con herself) is quite gullible and putting herself in danger without really thinking things through.

Neal tells her he's a con man - next thing, she jumps all over him? He tells her Hagan is dangerous and she doesn't ask for more? I just... if Rebecca is genuine, then I don't really like the way that the writers are handling it. And I want someone like her for Neal - someone that would be for him who June was for Byron. But that woman needs to be really smart, has her eyes open and not just be excited about Neal's criminal escapades - I don't want her to necessarily commit crimes with him, but she needs to have his back when it counts. And from Rebecca's presence on the show so far, I have yet to see a moment when she really did that for Neal.

(Of course, I'm still 95% sure that she is conning Neal. But if she's not, then she either needs to grow up fast or get out before she gets hurt - for both her and neal's sake.)

[meeni (from livejournal.com)]

Peter reminds me of my father in the apartment scene and in the end..
the disappointment

my heart is aching too for the BOYS :(

i agree now is not the time for Neal to be a good student..and i have to ask why Mozzie and Peter are not skeptic about Rebecca now..?

they all have learned lessons i guess and maybe they shouldn't have

and waiting 3 weeks now for the next episode*thud*

[sapphire2309]

I literally squeaked at the end of the ep. So much hurt.

I love that they didn't tell us whether Peter knows about Hagen or not. Though if he knew about Hagen he wouldn't have destroyed Neal. But maybe... My brain is hurting with the possibilities.

Rebecca is something like Elizabeth, in the way she's a natural con who never really went against the law, except she's not balancing out Neal the way El does Peter. Neal and Rebecca are freefalling together, no safety net.

Rebecca looks too used to the crazy of Neal's life.

When she was on the balcony, working the details out of Neal, she seemed like a child with a shiny new toy. Neal has fingers in the criminal world, and she wants to know what that's like, and apparently hasn't thought of the consequences. She has no clue what she's getting into.

Also, she thinks very clearly, which is pretty much the opposite of what I just said, but yeah. Again, on the balcony, when she tells Neal 'you got everything you wanted'. I think this is me being jealous of her, possibly, but in my experience, people don't know what's bothering them immediately. This is actually a problem I have with most TV characters. They know themselves so well.

I'm not sure what any of this says about her.

I'm scared. For Neal, for Peter, for Rebecca, for everyone.

Okay, enough thoughts, squee!

Neal looked gorgeous in that blue robe.

"Things." Neal and Mozzie!

Dawson looks a little like James from the back. O.O

Carrier pigeons!!!!!

The tulips. And Peter! "I'm gonna kill him." (!!!)

The handshake. OMG. Mozzie, love!!!

Jones being awesome. Love, again :D

[palombaggia.livejournal.com]

Sqee with glee. I have internet in my tropical island!
hello girls, I love you all!
Well, I havn't seen the epi of course..I will download probably tomorrow
Will comment later
seems the boys had a tense convo
I'm like Elr before she saw the epi
nervous....
hugs to you all

[elrhiarhodan]

Hugs you - and I hope you are having a terrific time on those pink sand beaches, dreaming up all the wonderful fanfic.

[kanarek13]

Oooh, I also have to say - Tim and Matt's acting = OMG!!! They were both practically vibrating with emotions. So brilliant!!!

[elrhiarhodan]

INORITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vibrating with tension is the only way to describe it. Beautiful and painful.

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

So much Yes!!!! The unshed tears in Matt Bomers eyes, the barely suppressed anger in his stance...I have said it before and I say it again, he is the best actor US TV has currently to offer!

[kanarek13]

Yes x a million.

But also Tim. The way he nailed that moment, Peter looked like he was one step away from having a heart attack, you could almost see his knees about to buckle.

They are both brilliant beyond my comprehension. I'm making it my mission for next year to hug them. It will be like hugging Peter and Neal by proxy :D

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

Well, I am angry with Peter. Not "I am not hating this character" angry, but still angry. I totally get where he is coming from. He used to be this straight-laced FBI agent, and he largely defines himself over this persona and his believe in the system.
But man! It is high-time someone gives him a reality check. He didn't start to colour out of the lines just because of Neal, he did it because he always had a certain "justify the means" approach in all his cases, even the ones in which Neal was just his helper. He might have believed himself above skirting the line, but in fact, he always did.
This in mind I am glad that Neal FINALLY called him on it. I wish Diana had been there, because she did it one or two times in the past, too, and she might have reminded him of the little fact.
Also at this point he should have learned that "the system" isn't perfect.

Neal just deserves a good hug. What he did was not right, but he did it for the right reasons, and he is still trying to protect Peter from the whole truth. And since I am still convinced that Rebecca killed Siegel, he will most likely get his heart broken (again) very soon.

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

I agree with you here - Peter likes to say that he has always played it straight and by the rules, but in fact he has been bending them from the very beginning. And in this way, he is also some of a hypocrite, and I'm not taking about this episode in particular. I can't count the amount of times that Peter has scolded Neal for going off the books on some FBI cases, but then other times he encourages it (going so far as Season 1 episode 3, when he lets Neal and Moz borrow his FBI jacket to impersonate an FBI agent to solve a case). Or a more recent case - drugging the psychologist to get a confession. And I'm not even mentioning all the times that Peter broke the law for Neal because Neal is his friend and "worth it". Let's face it, Peter often breaks the rules when he thinks that the endgame is just (not unlike Neal) - but because his and Neal's moral code is set differently, Peter thinks that his rule-breaking is justified while Neal's is not.

I guess this is another thing that is needed for the boys to solve this crisis - for Peter to accept the truth about himself and decide - either he can keep pretending that he has this high morals (and then he should live by them), or he can help Neal get Hagen - but then he has to stop pretending that he has always been playing by the rules and that the system is infallible.

And you're right - Diana's absence is really obvious right now. Not that I don't like Jones, but Diana was always more reliable in stuff like this.

[chreesko.livejournal.com]

I agree with this entire comment. I hope Peter gets to a spot where he can take a realistic look at himself and his actions, and what he thinks is important and why.

Peter thinks that his rule-breaking is justified while Neal's is not.

This is really the crux of it. That's why I thought his clinging to the black-and-white letter of the law, and his (temporary) insistence that he had to follow the rules exactly, was so interesting this episode. — And also that, ultimately, he wasn't willing to throw himself on his sword to comply with the letter of the law; he found a way to skirt the rules that allowed him to keep his job and stay out of prison while getting the DA out. — He was like someone clinging to a life preserver.

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

This was also in his talk with Elizabeth..."You didn't commit a crime"...no, she didn't, but she told Neal to do whatever necessary, and it is by far not the first time she did it. It is just too easy to say "we haven't done anything, it was Neal", when most of the time Neal does it on their behest. You can't wield a weapon and then blame it on the weapon when someone gets hurt.

[alittlembrace-x.livejournal.com]

Truth! This bothered me too. It's the at least the second time Elizabeth pressured Neal and Neal took all the blame in Peter's books.

The fact is, Neal did what he did for Peter and Peter only, and he's been carrying the consequences all on his own. Neal's line crossings never bothered Peter much as long as they work to Peter's benefit.

It's guilt and identity crisis Peter's dealing with here. He never intended to get this far, yet having Neal Caffrey as a friend has it's highs and lows. It's about time Peter recognises Neal as someone who represents a part of himself rather than the opposite.

[alittlembrace-x.livejournal.com]

Neal being called a criminal (again) is not undeserved. Neal stole for no reason just last week (though Peter does't know that yet). But his whole rant about how much he put on the line for Neal, and then turn around to call Neal a criminal for saving him just came out incredibly bitter and self-righteous. Peter is rightfully angry about this whole mess, but Neal is in no way the only one to blame. Making Neal feel wronged and unworthy is only gonna make this worse.

And thank you Elizabeth for all the truth!!! Peter needs to be knocked on the head with it repeatedly. And frankly so does Neal, if he thinks just keeping things under covered for now is a "win".

Ah, boys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *hugging and shaking them both violently*

[citrinesunset.livejournal.com]

Good point about Rebecca messing with Neal's sketchbook. I didn't think about that a lot, but it stood out to me, too. Poor Neal is used to being able to cover stuff up on the sketchpad. I thought she was very suspicious in this episode.

I think Rebecca is playing to Neal's weaknesses a lot. Like you say, I think after losing Kate (the first time), Neal might be more sensitive to the impact that lying can have on a relationship. Rebecca may not know his background when it comes to that, but she definitely knows that he was worried about losing her, and I think she's using that for all it's worth.

[elrhiarhodan]

I have a lot of suspicions about Rebecca - either she's Hagen's tool or Hagen's her tool (I vote for the former, since the writers aren't that clever).

She's playing him and Neal's so desperate for love that he can't see what the rest of us think is as plane as the nose on our faces.

[citrinesunset.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I think it could go either way, but I'm voting for the latter. While I don't think the show is extremely clever, it would be consistent with stuff they've done before: Neal thought Fowler was behind Kate's death, but he ended up just being Adler's pawn. I think they're going to want to have a really "shocking" twist.

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

She could also be third party...or Hagen believes that she is his tool, but she has actually her own plans.

[sinfulslasher]

I must've watched The Scene a dozen times in a row. MY HEART, IT BREAKED! God, Matt and Tim knocked it out of the park. I can't even begin to describe how much this scene affected me. My stomach clenched, and it physically hurt to watch them fight for their beliefs (however opposite they might be) and, in a way, for each other.

Neal should have known that Peter would find out sooner or later. He should also know that Peter will find out about Hagen in the end. And it can only get worse (before it'll hopefully get better).

I'm now convinced that Rebecca is working for Hagen. She grated on my nerves liek whoa. If she really does not work for Hagen, she's the worst kind of leech/girlfriend ever. Geez. Oh Neal. He always gets sloppy when emotions are involved. Look at what is happening since Rebecca. I rest my case.

Thank you, El, for telling Peter the truth. I'm sure people will find fault with her again, but I found her to be very much IC, and thank you for basically saying, "fuck the law, I want my husband and my life."

Also? El + Mozzie + lunch date = Best Thing Ever.

Peter + Mozzie at the park? Awesome!

(almost) nekkid Neal? Most awesomest ever!!!

I'm sure folks will bash Peter again, but honestly? He's right. Neal is a criminal. As evidenced all season long. And really, I don't blame him one bit for the slightly low blow. All things considered, he's more disappointed in himself than in Neal, I think. I also understand Neal's reaction at the very end - he did it all for Peter and feels unappreciated. They're both right, from their own perspective. And at the same time, they're both also so very, very wrong.

Sigh.

BOOOYS!!! *smishes*

[alittlembrace-x.livejournal.com]

Yep, it hurt. A lot.

So much that I had to come out of the dark for some group support (so much good discussion here guys)! When I watched the ending scene for the second time, it was quieter and more subtle than I remembered, but just as powerful. I felt like the first time I was watching from Neal's perspective (plain shock), and second time from Peter's (deep dread). And I really do feel for both of them!!! (How awesome were Matt and Tim?!!!) To me, this is when the Neal/Peter dynamic is at it's most raw: when you don't know who's right or wrong, and whose side to be on, but you love them and hurt for them just the same.

Basically what Peter said: "None of this is right." It's so awful and complicated, and it's probably gonna get worse before it gets better.

And that promo... *shivers* I keep wondering where is that rock bottom for Neal. I feel like he's been dangling above it for seasons, but the nature of this show prevents him from ever reaching it. This season does have a greyer tone to it, and the dark place, for some reason, feels closer than ever. What's becoming very clear is, Neal can't keep on living like this. Not for long anyway. Something must change in life. I only hope that it's not something too terrible to come back from.

[scarym1.livejournal.com]

Thanks for providing a fair & respectful place to comment. : )

OMG, That was so intense. What a great performance by both Tim & Matt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want to watch it again but I think I will wait for the initial shock to wear off.

I know it will all work out eventually but it probably going to take a few eps and lots of angst.

At first I thought that Rebecca worked for Hagen and then that Hagen worked for her & then maybe she is just on her own & soooooo Crazy obsessed with the Codex that she is willing to do anything to get it.

[countess-k.livejournal.com]

This episode broke my heart. The entire sequence of Peter and Neal talking in Neal's apartment I had my hand over my mouth. Neal's face, the tremble in his voice...(how does Matt pull that off? A+ acting,) it was hard to watch.

I won't bash Peter because he didn't arrest Neal even though he wanted to. But his law-above-everything attitude made me want to slap him. Even Elisabeth disagreed. Law makes mistakes, and Neal suffered so much to right its wrongs. That's not something he should be punished for but Peter lives too much in a black and white world to understand.

I'm a little worried they left Hagen out of the reveal. It means there will be more secrets waiting to blow up in Peter's face and I'm not sure my heart will be able to take it, especially if it turns out Hagen was the one who killed Siegel. I don't like to sit through yet another Peter and Neal fight. They've become worse than Dean and Castiel from Supernatural with the lying, fighting and distrusting each other instead of hugging and being friends like I want them to. Hopefully it all ends with Peter seeing the value in Neal's sacrifice and taking him back. I'm all ready for my boys to be a unit again and fight against an external threat for a change instead of all these internal clashes.

As always, thank you for the dish.

[damietta.livejournal.com]

So many great comments. I will put in that if the show ends with S5 I will be very sad.