Thirty Days of Fanfic - Days Nine - Twelve

[elrhiarhodan]

Playing catchup, my lovelies. Gad, do I HATE summer colds.

9 – Pairings – For each of the fandoms from day two, what are your three favorite pairings to write?

White Collar: This is easy:

Neal/Peter
Peter/Neal
Peter/Neal/Elizabeth

No - you didn’t misread. I don’t know if it’s a typical thing in a slash pairing to write the dominant partner first (as in D/s), but that’s the way I tend to roll, so Peter/Neal is different from Neal/Peter. And by Neal/Peter, I don’t mean that Peter is submissive to Neal - it’s just that the relationship has a different dynamic than Peter/Neal. I think I tend to reserve Neal/Peter for A/Us like Wings of Desire and a few others.

If I were to write, say XMFC - Erik/Charles, Farscape - John/Crais, John/Aeryn, Chiana/Zhaan, The West Wing - Josh/Sam.

10 – Pairings – Have you ever gone outside your comfort zone and written a pairing you liked, but found you couldn't write, or a pairing you didn't like, and found you could?

I do try to stretch myself. I enjoy odd pairings - Clinton/Mozzie, June/Bancroft, Sara/Peter. The Clinton/Mozzie pairing has an interesting painplay dynamic that I want to explore further.

I think the pairing that I’ve tried the hardest to write has been anything with Alex - I’ve warmed to the character, and I’ve written her solo several times, but I can’t put her in a room or in a bed with anyone. Dunno why.

11 – Genre – do you prefer certain genres of fic when you're writing? What kind do you tend to write most?

I think I like romance as a genre the most - both to write and to read. Almost all of my stories build around a romantic connection - whether they are porn or casefic or something entirely different.

I’ve also had a lot of fun in the fantasy genre (and we pause for a commercial interruption - if anyone is writing for Promptfest VI, know that I can be twisted into writing Vampire World with the right Peter/Neal prompt). The 61k epic I recently finished is perhaps the oddest thing I’ve even written, including Wings of Desire, but it’s not at all cracky (okay - other than for a few odd moments it’s not).

The genre I write the least is gen - not because I always want to write about sex - far from it. It’s just that, well, I don’t enjoy it. Maybe had I started writing fan fiction when I was much less mature, less worldly, I would have found that satisfying.

ETA (because, in addition to my waning headcold, I have a case of foot and mouth disease: I probably should have said that I came into fandom through slash, explored because of slash, and started writing because I wanted more slash. Gen and Slash has nothing to do with anyone's age or maturity level - it has to do with their personal preferences, full stop.

I’m not the type of writer who needs to be constrained by canon, hell - I wouldn’t be writing epic fantasies and fairytales if I was! I like my imagination, and I like to explore the whole sequence of “what if’s”.

12 – Have you ever attempted an "adaptation" fic of a favorite book or movie but set in a different fandom?

Hmmm - I think the closest think I’ve written that comes to that is the displacement of White Collar’s Pilot into a vampire fantasy.

And I’ve borrowed very heavily from certain classics for my Urban Fantasy epic. But that’s not a deliberate rewrite or adaption.

Comments

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

I'm puzzled by your definition of "gen." "Gen" doesn't necessarily mean canon-centered, it just means the story isn't pairing centered. I suppose I can see where you might get the idea that it means canon-centered, since a lot of gen writers would say that canon pairings are okay, but that isn't actually the point - a Peter/El story that focuses on their relationship still wouldn't be properly gen.

ETA: I also don't think that gen is the hallmark of immature or naive writers. I write a lot of gen and don't consider myself to be either, frankly.

[elrhiarhodan]

Thanks - I realized after I posted that I was smooshing together two different things.

Yes - I do understand that gen is not about preserving the purity of canon. But one of the arguments I read most often from gen writers (at least in WC) is that shipping a certain relationship (Peter/Neal, e.g.) is abhorrent not because its a pairing, but because it doesn't exist in canon.

But that's an argument for another time, another place.

ETA - I didn't mean to insult you or imply that all gen is immature and naive. I am trying to explain my own personal worldview.

[daria234.livejournal.com]

" But one of the arguments I read most often from gen writers (at least in WC) is that shipping a certain relationship (Peter/Neal, e.g.) is abhorrent not because its a pairing, but because it doesn't exist in canon. "

I have heard this too in various fandoms. It does not seem like a logical argument to me. It rather misses the point that nothing is fanfic is canon unless all you write is deleted scenes. (sorry, you said you wanted to save the argument for another time and I said it anyway, lol)

Some people actually do use "gen" to mean 'no mention of non-canon ships.' I don't see why that definition could be correct (and it seems to mostly be used that way in fandoms with only hetero relationships, so you wouldn't see a fic with Jack/Ianto called 'gen'). So by that def, casefic with Peter/El kissing when Peter is found safely would still be gen, but casefic with Neal in El's place would not be gen. Like I said, I don't get that definition.

[aisle-one.livejournal.com]

I tend to take those arguments as anti-slash.

In re gen fics, I think they're as difficult to execute as a well-conceived het or slash story. As a reader and writer of gen, I don't see any correlation between gen writers and maturity or naivette. Gen fics can also as deeply explore relationships as slash or het fics. I don't personally like to delineate fics as some genres being more superior than others because any type of story can be difficult to write.

[elrhiarhodan]

*tears at thinning hair*

I so didn't mean to open up a can of wank. I didn't, I really didn't.

*SO SORRY*

[aisle-one.livejournal.com]

Thanks for clarifying in your post. I read what you said initially as value statements so it riled me up a little more on behalf of gen writers I love and respect rather than from personal offense since I write majority slash fics. I understand better now what you were trying to say.

And, incidentally, I don't consider your initial statements to be wanky nor my response to you. I appreciate that we can have an honest discussion when misunderstandings occur.

[elrhiarhodan]

Thank you for your graciousness and understanding.

[jrosemary.livejournal.com]

I agree, Aisle One--and I don't think Elr meant to imply that writing gen is equivalent to immaturity. (And I write lots of WC gen--as long as you consider a father/son type of relationship between Peter and Neal as gen.)

I think Elr meant only that she wanted to play with canon from the beginning--and, yeah, slash and OT3 are intense ways of playing with the canon. Whereas, had she started when she was younger and less confident, she may have been afraid to tamper with canon to that extent and stuck to gen for that reason.

But, again, I agree that a well-executed gen fic is just as hard to pull off as any other, and that there is no hierarchy among the different types of fics--which is why I tend to love them all!

[coffeethyme4me.livejournal.com]

That's how I read it, too, J. I think some people find it more difficult or challenging to write relationships not explored in canon and some find it more difficult to stick with canon and do gen relationships and stories. It's all a matter of personal experience, and that's what I read her as saying. But I do know her pretty well and Goddess knows it's so easy to offend and be offended in this medium (haven't we all offended and been offended?) Personally, I think writing gen is hard as hell and I admire it greatly. One of the things I like about this fandom is that it does seem pretty good at being a mutual admiration society most of the time. I know Elr would NEVER bash a genre, a writing style, a person, a group, ever ever ever. She's a rock of this community, and one of the reasons it's so strong and loving.

GROUP HUG!!!!

:-)

[aisle-one.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your insight. And, yes, I do consider father/son Neal and Peter stories to be gen. I agree with sahiya's definition of gen fic to be stories that don't center on pairings. And I'm with you -- I love all sorts of stories. So long as they're well-written and well-executed, then I easily fall in love with them.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

But one of the arguments I read most often from gen writers (at least in WC) is that shipping a certain relationship (Peter/Neal, e.g.) is abhorrent not because its a pairing, but because it doesn't exist in canon.

Hmm, yes. I have gotten the vibe from gen writers in WC fandom at times (not always, of course, there are strictly-gen writers in the fandom whom I adore) that what they are really trying to avoid is, as aisle_one says below, slash. Claiming to be canon purists is a wonderful way to do that. OTOH, I do know people who actually do read the Peter/Neal relationship as father/son and therefore find slash with them to be rather squicky. Personally speaking, I prefer an at least subtextually slashy interpretation, but I'm not opposed to others.

For me, whether a story I write is gen or not simply depends on what the story wants. I'm willing to go gen if a romantic relationship feels distracting or unnecessary, but I'm just as willing to write a romantic relationship if that's what is called for. I'm not married to canon by any means, and I've read totally gen AU's (not so much in WC, but definitely in Doctor Who) that were not at all canon-compliant but still weren't focused on 'ships of any kind.

[aisle-one.livejournal.com]

OTOH, I do know people who actually do read the Peter/Neal relationship as father/son and therefore find slash with them to be rather squicky.

I agree with this, too. One of my favorite WC writers just can't see Peter and Neal as anything but having a father/son relationship so she doesn't tend to read and definitely doesn't write Neal/Peter slash. But she's not opposed to slash as a general rule.

[daria234.livejournal.com]

Interesting!

(define the 'right prompt' ;)

I too prefer gen the least out of all the genres. While your reasons make a lot of sense, MY reasons probably ARE that I actually just always want to write about sex, lol. Or subtextual slash sometimes :)

Though, really, that element of exploring sex and psychology and relationships in a serious and non-censored way is not something done in canon, or really in most genres of written work. So that's something that is specific to fanfic to some extent, to have a (woman-centric!) community that is open about the fact that writing hot sexytimes is a worthwhile goal in and of itself, and yet the erotic is not the REASON you're there, it's the show and characters. I love reading a good gen fic, but in terms of writing, it almost feels weird to me, for example, to write a Peter/Neal where I make a special effort to make the sexual tension stay hinted at rather than openly addressed. I have some Peter/Neal stories that are not primarily about sex or romance or even their relationship, but they are not gen because I write them as if they are in a relationship since that's how I see them. It would feel like 'hiding' their relationship to me if I wrote a gen fic focusing on Peter and Neal. *is bizarre.* I never feel that way as a reader, since I love different interpretations of the characters, but I just don't write a lot of gen.

[elrhiarhodan]

And this reinforces why I think you are brilliant.

To me - it's very difficult to insist that there is no relationship subtext in the Peter/Neal relationship when one of the actors (Tim DeKay, cough, cough, cough) has gone on record several times promoting a slash or threesome relationship. It is even more difficult when, in front of a theater packed with fans, one of the actors (Matt Bomer, cough, cough), throws himself into the arms of his co-star when an audience member comments that this is a show about love.

And yet, countless times, I have read comments from gen writers that Peter/Neal is (fill in your negative adjective) because it simply doesn't exist.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

Er . . . what does the actors' behavior have to do with subtext on the show? I mean, it's nice for us slash fans, but I really don't assign it any significance. There really are people who interpret their relationship as father/son, which the show also supports at certain moments.

On the other hand, if I support them in their interpretation, I also expect to be supported in mine, and that isn't always the vibe I get.

[elrhiarhodan]

I would (and do) assign a certain level of significance to this in that it is these actors interpreting their roles.

And I do know that there is a very strong thread of father/son relationship in the show - one of my dearest friends has written a lot of excellent fan fiction in that vein. I am, of course, referring to jrosemary's My Old Man series.

I feel that we are falling down a rabbit hole here - because of a badly worded and off-hand comment. I have apologized to you for the unintended insult, both publicly and privately. I have modified my original posting to reflect my error. What else can I do to put this right?

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

This was a separate remark - I didn't mean it to have anything to do with my original comment.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

Uh . . . why? I'm not sure how you got that from what I said, but all I meant was that the comment I made regarding actors' off-screen actions (since frankly I could care less about most actors) doesn't have much to do with my original remark about your definition of gen.

But thank you for changing your entry.

[daria234.livejournal.com]

Interesting. More reasons to love TDK. lol

I think that has always been the slashers defense, to some extent, in various fandoms - that showrunners/actors/critics/scholars/others make a note of the homoeroticism (to use a word from a long time ago, lol). It's our way of saying - look, we didn't IMAGINE it because they look pretty together, the subtext is a key driving element of characterization (and plot comes from character). I guess that some people might look at fandom interpretation as not NEEDING that validation from other places, but honestly, I think it's more fun when people outside fandom talk honestly about subtext and why it makes it enjoyable. People who love Shakespeare are bound to notice slashy subtext (especially if they've seen a number of theatrical productions, lol, because most of the professional stagings I've seen bring it out pretty overtly).

(to clarify, not criticizing your points AT ALL, it's just you made me think thinky thoughts, so I'm rambling about them a bit :)

more importantly HUGS on your cold

[teaotter.livejournal.com]

*offers hugs* This meme has some sneaky traps in it, I see.

You're new enough to fandom to have missed some of the generations of definition-shifts and the on-going battles thereof. "Gen" is one that has moved around *a lot* over the years, and it still means different things in different parts of the internet.

It has definitely been used in an anti-slash way ("only canon pairings"), an anti-romance way ("no relationships can be mentioned"), and in a general anti-sex way ("no kissing or other 'icky' things"). I'm probably missing a few definitions with that recap, too. And then everyone gets emotionally attached to their own definitions.

FWIW, I appreciate the clarification you made. I know how easy it is to phrase something badly on the internet at the best of times.

[elrhiarhodan]

Yes, and if I had just kept strictly to the meme, I wouldn't have inadvertently opened up such a can of WTF?

Thank you for your input and your graciousness.

[lionessvalenti.livejournal.com]

The top/bottom name switch in listing the pairings always seems like such an old fashioned thing. I think they still do it a lot in anime and some of the video game fandoms, but I definitely think it's gone out of the Western fandoms (mostly; I'm sure there are fandoms where it happens, I don't want to make a huge sweeping statement and have people point out all those little exceptions).

I personally don't use it because I think it makes something really important and significant out the header, when what should be important is the content of the fic. Especially going as far as considering them two separate pairings. I mean, the characters don't become different people when you change the dynamics.

I don't mean to make this the pile on Elr post, I just had Thoughts.