Post Ep Dish - S4.09 - Gloves Off

[elrhiarhodan]

Folks - no Dish tonight. I'm too tired and I have too much left to do (moving day tomorrow).

I love you all, and would love if you parked a few thoughts here ... just so I can get your bits of joy during the day.

Comments

[maiac.livejournal.com]

Good luck with moving tomorrow! May you have no interesting stories to tell about it.

(Edited to add) I'm on vacation this week, so I could stay up late enough to actually watch the episode when it aired. Whee!

[winterstar95.livejournal.com]

Well I have no idea what the case was about. I was too excited for the fight and to tell you the truth I hate when shows do the boxing thing. But this was so worth it! I am not very literate right now because it was so fantastic.

My thoughts.

Neal kept his word! \o/

Peter did not give him the benefit of the doubt :(

Mozzie and mrs suit tiny bit of dialogue aimed directly at the audience \o/

Neal making sure Sam did not hear what elizabeth was saying. \o/

The fight - epic!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought neal lashed out from finding out that Peter tagging Ellen caused issues with her being unsafe. But it actually had to do with the trust issue. Peter went after Sam after Neal explicitedly told him not to. Peter didn't trust Neal. Peter didn't listen to what neal promised. Why hasn't Peter learned to listen to what Neal exactly says yet. He's a con man! He knows how to talk to get his way.

Mozzie telling Neal that the suit is his 2nd best friend. All kinds of squee!!!!

Peter protecting neal as they walk into Sam's apartment.

Oh and I think I figured it out. But I will not say here.

Only one more episode.....I will die. Sorry if this is a mess, using the iPad and I got new glasses today. They are still making me a little sick. I hate progressives but know I will love them eventually.

[lmarrick.livejournal.com]

That explosion that happened between Neal and Peter after the fight was a long time coming. I'm proud of Neal for saying some of the things he did, even though they hurt me in special places ("You still don't trust me!" comes to mind)... I see Peter's POV, that Neal doesn't get a private life, especially when it comes to this--but the picture I'm getting of him is overbearing, controlling and possessive. No wonder Neal, the free spirit, has issues with that. As if the anklet weren't enough!

Yeah, he's a con man, and Peter's got to remember that. Because Neal has a history of taking a mile when Peter gives an inch. But still, Neal's grown a lot this season, and has been working really hard at being more trustworthy. He's chosen Peter's side time and time again, even when it was hard (refusing Abigail's info because he didn't want to steal and betray Peter). I get why he was so pissed. Like all his efforts at being trustworthy come to nothing. Peter's still treating him like a criminal, and I worry that it will make Neal give up and decide being trustworthy isn't worth the effort b/c nobody believes him anyway. Then he'll just get sucked into whatever evil scheme/plot development Sam is going to introduce...

[meeni (from livejournal.com)]

First of all Good luck with the move,Elr:D

Can i say i totally agree with what you said

Additionally my aww moments when Peter said "I'm trying to protect you" while Neal was trying so hard to hurt him.So believable scene

Elizabeth bringing Gellato for Neal*loves*and then scene ruined when she parked her car outside to investigate

Peter mocking to be jealous that he thought Gellato was for him..*hee hee*

Also i found it so funny that Moz wasn't stable while he was putting on gloves on Neal..

Well Peter thought he could convince Sam to help them find Ellen's killer and Neal's father.So much for caring Neal.Poor Peter

[mousedm.livejournal.com]

Peter did give him the benefit of the doubt - gave him several chances to explain about seeing Sam. Neal could easily have said that he'd met Sam but didn't show him the tape. Peter made a mistake, but he did it for the right reasons because he was trying to protect Neal. Neal hasn't exactly been trustworthy for a long time, so it's not surprising that Peter doesn't trust him. Neal has manipulated Peter many times and nearly got his wife killed. Trust is earned and I don't believe Neal has earned that. However, I'm sure I'm in the minority in believing that.

[lmarrick.livejournal.com]

Good points. I see the grounds for them not trusting each other. Especially as Neal is a con man. However, something this show seems to be saying, or trying to say, is that trust is a decision. Yes, it's earned, and it can be destroyed in an instant (but these two have had so many "instants" that I don't know what they have left to work with anymore). But if you're going to keep someone in your life and have a successful relationship, you've gotta make a decision to trust.

Peter and Neal often make the decision to trust each other. And then fail to follow through with that decision based on stupid little this and thats. There's no committment to that decision. As much as they're both willing to risk it all for each other, they're not willing to risk being wrong about each other? Peter'd risk his career for Neal, but he won't risk trusting Neal? It's like Mozzie said, they make promises they won't be able to keep. Yes, Neal's a con man, but he's been working really hard at making the right choices and being trustworthy this season, and he's made more progress than ever before. Even when he stole the Pascal, he didn't want to. And he told Peter about it right afterward.

They both had chances this ep to say things to clear the air, and both just kept their mouths shut. So sad, boys. So sad.

And Elizabeth being kidnapped was swept under the rug too quickly. It's like it never happened now. Nobody ever held it against Neal, not even El, who was out picking locks with him very next episode.

All that said, my favorite scene of this episode was the boxing choreography scene! That was full of so much win! Jones was a great boxing teacher (is there a special word for that which I've forgotten?) and everybody looked like they were having so much fun fake fighting each other. It was sweet when Neal accidentally really hit Peter and got all worried. But I freaked out when he kept pummeling Peter for real in the ring! I'm sure Peter was holding back. He could have nailed Neal much sooner (pun intended), but didn't want to hurt him.

[coffeethyme4me.livejournal.com]

All I wanna say is good luck, I love you, and BIG HUGE HUGS!!!!

[surreal-44.livejournal.com]

Good luck on the move.

I got hung up early on regarding the secret locket with the secret key to the secret lock box thingie that leads to secret files of Neal's dad being innocent.

Garrrrr. -headdesk- Noooooooooooooooo. Not another treasure hunt!

Um, the rest was kind of dull for me. I hate boxing, so I don't care about the fight.

The only emotion I had about Sam running off was that I hoped he was going to trip and fall into the Plot Hole Pit so we don't have to see him again, but alas, no. -heavy sigh-

Are we all ready for the 'big reveal' that probably isn't going to be a big reveal? :p :p :p :p

[evesgreenleaf (from livejournal.com)]

Good luck on your move, may everything go smooth.

Tonight's episode, love the boxing, Neal's anger at Peter; and how well El and Mozzie know both Peter and Neal.

[lmarrick.livejournal.com]

Good luck to you!

[countess-k.livejournal.com]

Alright, so I'm mightily pissed right now because I went to Youtube to watch next week's promo and people were speculating on the twist, with guesses that hadn't occurred to me. So I may be unofficially spoiled. *Grrrr!*

As for the episode:

I love Neal! Love, love, love him. I don't think I've squeed over a character as much as I've squeed over him tonight. Shallow be me but he's just sooooo pwetty!!!

And El, she's the second character I squeed over. She' also very pretty while looking at her husband and boyfriend friend through the window. And she does good detective work. Go El! Glad we got some awesome Neal/El moments this episode. It's the pairing that doesn't get enough canon love.

And once again I am reminded why I'm glad I don't work at a high profile job. I neither care about the stress nor about kissing the bottoms of douchebags like Eric Whatshisface. These people are disgusting, especially when I remember they're part of the reason the economy landed in the shitter.

The scene with Peter going to Sam reminded me of the scene between Peter and Kate in season 1, the climatic scene that sold me the beautiful Peter/Neal pairing. Once again Peter stands in front of someone important to Neal and shows them teeth. He's not going to let anyone hurt his boy and that's final, no matter how much the other party claims having Neal's best interest in mind. Peter is more a father to Neal than his real father would ever be (yes, I also support fatherly Peter-Neal.)

They did a great job turning the mock fight into a real one with a plausible prelude. And Neal...my baby hurt so bad at Peter's lack of trust. My heart went out to him. Matt is such an excellent actor. He did this thing with his eyes that made me absolutely go gaga, so much angst and betrayal in those eyes. When he landed on his back I wanted to huggle him. I bet Peter did too.

I hope the spoiler speculations aren't true because if they are the twist would be the cheesiest, most obvious in the history of the show. Either way I can't wait for next week; can't believe it's the summer finale already. Where did the time go?

Good luck with moving. Hope you come back and post something once you're done. The week isn't quite complete without your dish.

[lmarrick.livejournal.com]

Your love for Peter's showing teeth made me love it more too!

[kanarek13]

Yeee, good luck with the move *hugs*

Now...

Awww, boys... I don't really know what to say. The episode was great and there were some super-awesome moments. The fight was epic and when they were preparing the choreography in Neal's apartment, you could see just how much epic fun they had. It's so rare to see Neal and Peter so carefree and just laughing their asses off. I loved that scene :D

But those trust issues - grrrrr. I sometimes feel like we are running in circles. Of course, I don't expect and I don't want the trust issues to go away completely, but after so much they've been through together, I do expect them to at least learn something about the proper way to do their dance :D Yet somehow they keep ending up in a bad place because of misunderstandings and going behind each other's backs instead.

But it's all because they care so much about each other. Neal is actually wrong about Peter not trusting him. Peter does trust him a lot but he just can't trust him all the way. I'm sure it's the same for Neal, he trusts Peter a lot, he has told him things he had never told anyone else... but it's not 100% either. And Peter sure as hell can't trust the impulsive side of Neal's nature :D He knows far too well that when Neal wants something more than anything, he directs his entire focus on that goal and is blind to everything around him. And then Peter is borderline terrified that something bad is gonna happen to Neal and he just wants to protect him from all the harm in this world (and sometimes he makes mistakes doing that) - this makes me go awwwwwwwww ♥

I also don't feel like this "We're done!" issue is gonna be a long-term issue. When Neal said that, he was so upset, you could almost see every cell in his body vibrating with emotion. He just needs to calm down, breathe, think... and I'm hoping he will come to his senses.

I'm looking forward to the finale, I want to see how it all works out :D

[lmarrick.livejournal.com]

"He knows far too well that when Neal wants something more than anything, he directs his entire focus on that goal and is blind to everything around him. And then Peter is borderline terrified that something bad is gonna happen to Neal and he just wants to protect him from all the harm in this world (and sometimes he makes mistakes doing that) - this makes me go awwwwwwwww"

THIS!

[virgo-79.livejournal.com]

May your move go smoothly, and your head not explode in the process. :)

I thought this episode was magnificent. I loved how much they delved into some of the real issues still dogging Neal and Peter and actually aired them in the open. That's been a long time coming.

Mostly though, I just loved our guys in this, and ached for them both. This episode brought me to tears a couple of times -- a first for WC. I think the moment that got me harder than any other was during the fight, when Neal and Peter are kind of locked in that hold, but Neal's head is almost on Peter's shoulder, and Peter whispers "I'm trying to protect you." Aside from being wrenching in and of itself, I thought that moment was a perfect representation of their relationship.

The practice match when they're choreographing the fight was great. I kind of got the impression we were seeing some unscripted screwing around there. :)

I'm still undecided about Sam, but I'm leaning more towards the possibility of him actually being James Bennett after this ep, particularly that early scene with Neal in his apartment.

I can't be angry at either of the guys in this one. Neal really let Peter have it, and the accusation about Ellen was empty and unfair, but he was so angry and hurt there -- and rightfully so. Yet on the other hand, while I think Peter dropped a spark in the tinder box with his investigation, I can't blame him, either. He was afraid for Neal -- and understandably so.

[hello-mcee.livejournal.com]

Stay strong, lady!

[winterstar95.livejournal.com]

Buttermilk! \o/ I love that goat!

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

Best wishes for the move to go smoothly!

The boxing training was *beautiful*. And I loved the fight itself, too, with Neal working out his frustration and anger at Peter. I know they *will* come back from this lack of trust, but I hope it doesn't drag out too long. Neal has to understand that Peter is acting purely with his (Neal's) well-being in mind.

[teaboyfan.livejournal.com]

You're probably in the throes of moving right now; I'm sending you good thoughts.

If the next episode doesn't open with Peter knocking on Neal's door with a bottle of brandy and a decadent dessert, I will be most displeased. He needs to apologize for (once again) jumping to conclusions and not trusting Neal, but also to point out that he has never done anything regarding Neal that wasn't motivated by caring and worry for him. Yes, he meddles, but it's because he loves him and knows that Neal has zero impulse control when he's emotional. Maybe their next pact needs to be sealed with a kiss, not a handshake or bloodletting.

Both Tim and Matt were brilliant in this episode; they have been consistently outstanding all season. Their ability to convey intense emotion with just a look continues to amaze me. I really think that Matt is now as good as Tim; wonder if working with him has been a learning experience, because Tim is the best. Of course Matt came into White Collar head and shoulders above most actors his age, but he is even better now. It's like we've been privileged to watch him grow and mature into a really amazing talent.

And to dip into the shallow end of the pool, weren't they both incredibly beautiful?

[meeni (from livejournal.com)]

i agree Tim is the best when it comes to expressions.
Matt is good too but certainly he's become better..throughout the seasons..

[crism79.livejournal.com]

I hope everything goes well Or went well with the moving :D (damn those time differences)

I haven't watched last night's episode but will in a minute. I have mixed anxious feelings about it...

[damietta.livejournal.com]

Good luck on the move!

Very emotional episode. Mozzie's "first best friend" was funny and poignant at the same time.

The fight was brutal, but the conversations later were even more so.

But, we know with WC everything will be wrapped up in two minutes.

I hope what everything thinks Sam is isn't because where do you go for there?

[kerrylang.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the choreography training was so much fun, much more than the actual fight, that was almost too much for me. Neal was right to be angry but I'm sad that he really fighted Peter in the ring.

Hope they talk about it and make up.

Peter rushed too quickly to conclusions like he always does when it comes to Neal. His wish to protect Neal is sometimes getting too deep and Neal is right, it is his personal live. He is not Peter's child.

Now, only one ep :(((((

Hope we see them on steady ground for the hiatus.