Post Ep Dish - S4.05 - Honor Among Thieves

[elrhiarhodan]

And we’re back for Week Five. Has anyone figured out why it was preempted (and why most first run shows were preempted) last week? There was nothing particularly special on the Olympics (I had thought that maybe it was the round-ball finals, but I was wrong).

So - counting down ... 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 … Houston, we have lift off!

(And lift-off’s completely staged, I’m not doing the Dish as a live squee anymore.)



This episode was called Honor Among Thieves, but it might better be named “Mixed Blessings.”

It’s not as bad as, say, Scott Free but definitely not going into my season favorites. Give it a solid 6 on the good ol' 1-10 scale.

First thoughts…

Felt very early Season Two-ish. Haven’t we seen Neal do the whole Lone Ranger thing in S2.1 - 2.10? But on the other hand, Neal’s decision to play it straight until his hand was forced was definitely a new side of him.

Things that make me sad (in no particular order) …

Diana and Christie breaking up. Yeah - that hurts. I hope it’s only temporary - that Diana’s gotten cold feet with the wedding thing.

Peter seeing Neal as uber-manipulative. I can understand it - given Neal’s history, but I don’t like it. And of course, if Peter and Neal absolutely trusted each other, they might as well be married.

Speaking of marriage and Mrs. Burke - what’s up with Elizabeth’s lack of screen time. She didn’t even go to Ellen’s funeral? She’s had like what - 10 lines in the last three eps? I am not happy with how they’ve reduced her to little more than a prop.

Mozzie’s back as the devil on Neal’s shoulder. Not surprising, of course.

Things that make me happy …

Peter telling Neal that he should have given him the chance to believe him.

Diana going to Neal for solace and advice.

Neal telling Peter he wanted to protect him.

Neal telling Peter his trust is too important to him. And I’m not with Peter on this - I don’t think Neal was manipulating him. Besides, when Neal was telling Peter this, I was so sure that they were going to kiss. It would have completely in character.

Abigail was a lesbian - and the conversation she and Diana had on their “date.” As I said, not happy that Diana and Christie have broken up, but it warmed the feminist in me that the show went there.

The reappearance of Neal’s Haustenberg, and that Peter knows what it is. Except that it’s at the wrong museum. It’s supposed to be at the Channing. Unless, as my friend, jrosemary says, the Channing offloaded it as soon as they could to the Kessman.

And beautiful Neal is especially beautiful in this episode. I don't know what it is - the light, the suit, the Apple products (he's finally got an iPhone, I'm sure - and his Mac Book Pro looks very much like the one I bought last week.

What annoyed me...

I’ve been to many museums in New York and around the world. In none of them have I ever found wheeled trash containers in the galleries. You know why? So people can’t put art in them and roll them away! And you can’t bring food or drink into a museum gallery, either.

I am sure that there are other things about this ep that annoyed me...but that’s par for the course. I'm tired and not in the mood to watch it from start to finish right now.

In fact, it’s not going to be on my rematch list, at least not for a few weeks. For the record, I still haven’t watched Scott Free from start to finish.

And a thought just occurred - is this the first nipple-less episode of the season? Or were there no nipples in the last one? And there was a considerable dearth of eye-fucking.

And never thought I’d be saying this - I miss Patterson, I miss The Cave, I miss The Yard.

Okay, folks - you know the drill. Thinky thoughts, not so thinky thoughts. Did you like this ep? Hate it? Or were you as meh about it as I am? Can you change my mind? Make me see things in a whole new light?

What say you, oh fellow fans?

Comments

[rosabelle]

I was wondering if anyone else had noticed how little Elizabeth's been around lately.

The Diana/Christie breakup definitely made me sad. I also hoping it'll only be temporary.

I just want Neal and Peter to work out their relationship and fight crime.

[sahiya]

Someone on my flist said, and I agree, that they weren't sure what Peter was so worked up about at the end. As cons go, realizing that the drive would probably end up in evidence and Peter would probably give it to him is . . . fairly weak. I think Peter must have some residual trust issues from being jerked around for a whole season, which I guess isn't so hard to understand. But I really don't think it was worth El's Face of Horror.

I actually enjoyed this episode a whole lot. But then, I also really like "Scott Free" (save for Mozzie's "Insurance Investigator Barbie" remark, which is entirely uncalled for and uncool).

[mousedm.livejournal.com]

Hated it. It felt very much more season 3 to me. I'm so sick of the whole mistrust thing. I really hoped we were beyond this, but it seems that Ellen's death is merely a plot device for Neal to make bad decisions - similar to after Kate's death. Truly annoyed!

[lmarrick.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's disappointing that this is shaping up to be another knowledge/revenge quest on behalf of a character we knew little about. Apparently the writers are not as creative as the con man they write.

[elrhiarhodan]

I didn't quite hate the episode - there were too many individual moments I liked, but yes - I have to agree that killing Ellen was a plot device.

I do think that Neal made a bad choice - but that he redeemed himself.

I'm not as suspicious as Peter.

[embroiderama]

I was super uncomfortable for a lot of this episode--I kept thinking that this show was easier to watch when I was more casually fannish about it, when I didn't care so much. GAH, it hurt to see them not trusting each other, but the fact that they eventually did establish some trust in a way that felt new made me feel better about it by the end. I did love that Abigail and Diana hooked up, even though the breakup is sad. It was fun to see them returning to something like the thing from the pilot when Neal was disappointed not to be able to play Diana the way he wanted to.

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

was super uncomfortable for a lot of this episode--I kept thinking that this show was easier to watch when I was more casually fannish about it, when I didn't care so much.

That. Exactly.
I would probably be less critical about tbe episode if I didn't love this show so much and didn't have such a high expectations for it.

Although the Diana/Abigal scenes and Diana talking to Neal was absolutely wonderful.

[elrhiarhodan]

--I kept thinking that this show was easier to watch when I was more casually fannish about it, when I didn't care so much.

THIS!!!!

Of course, that means I haven't been relaxed about White Collar since Bad Judgment.

And as much as I hated that Peter is no mistrustful of Neal (and I'm probably in the minority about this), it's very in character. One of the things that I thought was exceptionally well done was the moment in the van with Peter, Diana and Neal, when Neal's getting ready to steal the sculpture and Diana's going back under-cover. It was a very subtle nod to that moment in the van when Peter tells Neal about Fowler buying the explosives, just after he's sent Alex to Diana's to steal the music box.

I do hope that Diana and Christie work it out.

[leonie-alastair.livejournal.com]

The only things this episode had going for it were the scenes with Diana. Even Neal being pretty wasn't a sufficient distraction from the really large plot holes. And the writers need to get their act together on the Mr & Mrs Burke front and stop using Elizabeth as a prop. I hope they understand that she's too interesting a character to sideline.

[elrhiarhodan]

I do think that the scene with Diana and Abigail, and Diana and Neal, and Diana in the office, were the best parts of the episode. Her sentimentality at the end was surprisingly out of character, though. But not in a bad way.

I am wondering if Tiffani has another project she's working on - I can't imagine that they are deliberately cutting her screen time.

[virgo-79.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on nearly all points. (Not so much on the kissing, as I see Peter and NEal as solidly father/son, but otherwise...:) )

I felt like Peter's indignation was kinda bullcrap. What difference does it make why Neal did the right thing? Even if he played by the rules for the express purpose of staying out of trouble and being ultimately rewarded with the drive, (which the rest of the episode up to that point flat-out confirms he didn't; he was telling Mozzie all along he wanted to do things Peter's way), he still did the right thing.

Peter's comment to Neal about how "Lying to me isn't protecting me" kinda cracked me up. As I said in another discussion of this ep, "Hi pot, this is the kettle: you're black."

I loved Neal's desire to do things the right way and not just protect but respect Peter in this one.

Stepford El is on my last nerve.

*Adored* the Diana/Abigail interaction.

[lmarrick.livejournal.com]

You are so right, Peter's indignation sucked. We've seen him think himself into the Very Wrong Conclusion about Neal before (exploding warehouse, anyone?) But I really thought Neal's actions at the end of this episode would have moved Peter beyond that. I'm so done with the jumping to conclusions and ready to take Neal down thing. (Although, if Neal had done the wrong thing, I was kinda on board with Peter--from his POV, if Neal had betrayed him after everything Peter did for him, that would have been the last straw.)

And thank you for saying that about El. She has become very Stepford! "I'm not here to offer anything productive, just to rattle off the same supportive nothings, peck your cheek, and not mind when you're never home or are too busy to get sexy with me--again--because you're out with your CI. Aw, it's time for a cute indulgent El-grin!"

[lmarrick.livejournal.com]

Jeez, if I had a relationship as fraught with suspicions as this I'd jump out the window or move to France. Or just get an ulcer. Peter is going to get an ulcer. I could have done without that whole final scene at the Burkes.

Also, I don't think Neal chose to do the right thing in this episode. At least, not for the sake of doing the right thing. He chose being loyal to Peter over betraying him. His principles lay more along the lines of personal loyalty than following rules. That's something I'd think Peter should understand by now. Then we wouldn't have had that final scene at the Burkes.

[elrhiarhodan]

Also, I don't think Neal chose to do the right thing in this episode. At least, not for the sake of doing the right thing. He chose being loyal to Peter over betraying him. His principles lay more along the lines of personal loyalty than following rules. That's something I'd think Peter should understand by now. Then we wouldn't have had that final scene at the Burkes.

THIS!

Absolutely - Neal is not grounded in rules like Peter is - his loyalty isn't to the law, but to Peter. Why doesn't Peter get that, yet?

[countess-k.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm the black sheep in the pack. I loved it.

I did see the similarities between it and season 2's I-need-to-find-who-killed-Kate scenario. At one point I even had a sense of deja vu. But you know what? I'm way more accepting of Neal seeking revenge for someone who had essentially been like a mother to him than a two faced, two dimensional girlfriend.

Loved that they gave Diana some more backstory, and some vulnerability. It softened her character a little for me. Made me feel for her, which is always good.

Totally felt like they should kiss in the office. In fact that whole sequence had a fanficy feel for me. I kept thinking had this been true Peter would already have Neal bent over his desk. ;)

What I loved most though was how easily they could read each other, and how much they cared for one another. Neal knew that Peter knew, and he did all he could to protect him. Peter, despite feeling betrayed, did his best to give Neal what he wanted. The only hiccup was the ending when Peter started over-thinking things. But maybe that's the theme of this season: a reverse-plot of season three. Neal is in full trust mode, on his best behavior and fully devoted to Peter, but things constantly skitter to places that make Peter doubt him. It will hurt to watch but when at the end everything is revealed and Peter realizes his mistake it would be a glorious reunion to match the one they had at the beginning.

PS. Even if they make it so that Neal was in fact running a ginormous con on Peter I wouldn't mind it. I like gray-area Neal. He's felt too squeaky clean recently so him being a little bad won't bother me.

[kerrylang.livejournal.com]

You put my thinking into words! :D

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

Well, it wasn't a BAD episode per say, but... I'm not sure I like where the show is going with this. I enjoyed Season 3, but I've been hoping that Season 4 would be more warm and fluffy, more of the good old solving cases/good natured bantering between Neal and Peter (like Season 1 and 2, which somehow managed to do that even with all the drama). I'm kinda sick of all the angst and mistrust.

I don't understand Peter in the last scene either. I mean, I get why he was angry before they arrested Abigail (that seemed realistic, and I kinda don't blame him after everything), but the way he suspected Neal from plotting - I honestly thought the boys were past that! I thought the strenghtened trust between them was the main reason for the whole Rafael/escape/Kramer storyline. Maybe Neal should have told him, but I was surprised how well he handled this. I had no idea how he was going to get out of the exchange until I saw it.

When I think of Kate, music box and the treasure, it seems that Neal has made a huge step towards trusting Peter. In that light, Peter's accusation just... sucks. Though at least this time, he didn't accuse Neal into his face.

(I'm probably a hypocrite. I enjoy damaging the friendship in fanfic so it can then be repaired and grow stronger. But I seriously don't want to see that on the show, at least not so soon again.)

By the way, what's happened to Elizabeth lately? El seemed like the voice of reason in Season 1 and 2. I fully expected her to say: "Honey, I know the last few months have been difficult, but do you really think Neal would have done that to you?" Can please someone write an episode tag like that?

It doesn't even make sense. If I accept Peter's logic that Neal ran a long con for the flashdrive - fine. But then why not tell Peter about Abigail's blackmail, make the sting official and get the flashdrive without threat of prison over him?

But maybe I'm too hard on Peter. He didn't see Neal as we do, trying to turn down Abigail and intending to do this "the right way" (until she blackmailed him). And the things he overlooked for Neal in the past - I know it was rarely two-dimensional, but every guy has his limits. I just hope this doesn't go back to the pattern: Neal has a problem, Peter thinks he'll do something stupid and goes all overprotective and secretive, Neal becomes wary of him and goes behind his back, Peter accuses him, cat and mouse game happens, Peter finds out and is angry, the boys fix it and reconcile - right until the next mess.

I was very put out by the lack of grivening on Neal's part, and the case part of the episode felt weak.

Criticism aside - I absolutely loved all the Diana parts! Without them, the episode would feel mediocre at best... thanks to Diana, I'm willing to give it a 7/10. I liked Mozzie in his element, and I liked how Neal got himself out of trouble. I even sort of liked Peter's anger before the bust. I would have closed my eyes on the plotholes - but it was really the ending that kinda spoiled it for me.

This is weird, 'cause I'm a terrible angst freak, but... can we please have a few angst-free episodes? Please?

[elrhiarhodan]

I agree that then ending-ending spoiled the episode. It wasn't a good one - with plotholes bigger than the Grand Canyon (like, for instance, Neal's tracker would have shown that he was never inside the Marshals' office) - but Peter's expression of utter mistrust took the ep from okay to seriously WTF.

[kanarek13]

Hmmm... I have mixed feelings about this episode... There were really great moments in it, funny, touching... but I did feel like we were back in season 3 with sneaking around and planning heists right under Peter's nose. I understand that they want to keep reminding us that Neal is a con and all, but this whole theft of the Pascal was a bit too much for me.

I do believe Neal was being genuine when he talked to Peter about why he did it, that he wanted to protect Peter. I completely agree with Peter that Neal should have come with this to him right at the very beginning, after everything that's happened I think they have reached a point where Neal can come to Peter with a "bomb" like that and Peter won't immediately jump to conclusions. But if Neal keeps making the same mistake over and over again, then it's no wonder Peter is seeing long cons even where there is nothing but genuine intentions :(

That last scene at The Burkes was the most difficult for me, I guess the stress-free period is now over *sigh*

And, of course, we didn't get any hugs :( Although I do agree that there was something beautiful about Neal in this one and I can't put my finger on it.

I really liked the scene with Peter being pissed at Neal and ready to take him down once and for all... I don't think we've ever seen him ready to do that in such a short time span, it felt to me like a very significant moment, that Peter is very much able to put an end to it because enough is enough - I found that very interesting in the light of recent events and people worrying that Peter is becoming more Neal and less agent.

But all in all, it's not gonna be an episode I will come back to in the immediate future.

[elrhiarhodan]

Neal's extra dose of beauty? It's the Apple products - I'm telling you!

We are in agreement about this ep - though it feels more S2 than S3 - more "Who Killed Kate" than "Let's Get the Art".

And I agree with you on everything else!

[gnomi.livejournal.com]

I was meh on the plot, but I loved the scene in Peter's office near the end. The way Neal crossed in front of Peter at the end of that scene, I thought he might hug Peter.

(or, as the kids say these days, I have so many feels about that scene!)

[elrhiarhodan]

The ending made the episode, but not th ending-ending, where Peter tells Stepford-El how much he distrusts Neal.

The episode as a whole was, like you say, meh. It had its moments (like Home Invasion or Scott Free), and there was nothing wrong with the acting or even the script. The story was just, meh.

[jrosemary.livejournal.com]

I’ve been to many museums in New York and around the world. In none of them have I ever found wheeled trash containers in the galleries. You know why? So people can’t put art in them and roll them away! And you can’t bring food or drink into a museum gallery, either.

ROFL! Thanks for the smile.

You know my feelings--I pretty much agree with everything you said here :D

[elrhiarhodan]

Yeah - not a favorite ep - but it had it's moments.

[doctor-fangeek.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed the episode, but it's not going on any "top X favorites" list. And while there is a part of me that wants to see Peter and Neal move past the mistrust, I understand that that isn't going to happen anytime soon - TPTB have made it clear that they see that push-pull as being integral to the show. So yeah, Ellen being killed is a plot device in that regard - Jeff Eastin has said, straight-out, that after what Peter put on the line for Neal at the end of season 3/the beginning of season 4, there would have to be something really big to get Neal to go behind his back, etc. That "something big" is Neal's family. And I think they also killed Ellen because it makes Neal's search for his past something that can be carried on throughout the season. Even if she had to leave because of the whole WitSec thing, she would have given him more information before she left, and they probably could have found a way to communicate.

On to things I liked about this episode:

Neal & Diana - I loved pretty much all of their interactions in this episode, from the back and forth about Rodin in the van, to Neal offering a shoulder and then Diana taking him up on it, to Diana's anger when she thinks Neal was conning them, to their conversation near the end of the ep.

The heist - I really do enjoy watching Neal & Mozzie "do their thing." But I also loved Peter figuring it out and Neal figuring out *how* Peter figured it out.

The Haustenburg is making the rounds of fictitious White Collar art museums! And Neal won't pass up an opportunity to visit the museum...because he's not allowed in without an escort.

Abigail is into *Diana* - This was totally FTW! And when Diana is like, "Damn, she made me," and Neal's all, "She knows you're FBI?"

Neal actually having that moment where he thinks about how much Peter did for him, how he made it possible for him to come back to New York. And the fact that Neal initially turns Abigail down, telling her the cost is too high.


Things I'm conflicted about:

Peter's suspicion of Neal at the end. I completely get his initial anger, especially after what Peter went through to bring Neal home. And I get his overall frustration - as Elr mentioned in an earlier reply, it's his first case back, and Neal is going behind his back and stealing something. Given all of that, I can buy his suspicion. But it's hard to watch, having seen the earlier scenes (to which Peter isn't privy), where Neal initially turns Abigail down (which is the first time he says the cost is too high), and when he doesn't seem at all happy about the success of the heist. Which leads me to...

Things that had me going, "huh?":

It's not out of character for Peter to be suspicious, and I don't know that he's entirely wrong, but I'm a little confused as to how it could have been a "long con." While it's true that Neal would have known that Abigail would have both the drive and the sculpture on her when she was arrested, he'd still be banking on the fact that Peter would make a copy of the drive. And he still could have ended up in jail. Also, Neal couldn't have known that Abigail was going to blackmail him. If he really wanted to play everyone, wouldn't it have made sense to tell Peter about Abigail's offer from the start?

So (going back to my earlier point) while I wouldn't be surprised if Neal realized, as he was scrambling for a way out of the "hole to big to crawl out of," that he might be able not only stay out of jail, but also get the drive, I don't think the plot makes sense as a "long con," and my jury is still out as to if he was manipulating Peter.

The other thing that had me scratching my head was Abigail's reaction to the anklet. In "Stealing Home," it was established that the FBI is helping to maintain an overall cover story that allows Neal to go undercover with suspects (like the master thief in that episode, who's name is currently escaping me) - he got out of prison legitimately and is currently a suspect in a number of cases. In this episode, Abigail I guess sees the anklet, and comments on it. Then later she accuses Neal of working with the Feds, but he convinces her otherwise. So what does she think the anklet is for? And what about Neal's cover story from Stealing Home? Anyone?

[virgo-79.livejournal.com]

I don't think the plot makes sense as a "long con," and my jury is still out as to if he was manipulating Peter.


It doesn't. Not in the least. And it struck me as pretty damn clear that Neal was *not* manipulating Peter. If they hadn't included multiple scenes in which Neal turned Abigail down and told Mozzie how much he hated doing any of it behind Peter's back, then they could have made that work as a legitimate doubt. But they did, so they couldn't.

[kerrylang.livejournal.com]

So, now it's my turn :D

I liked this ep because it was White Collar at its greatest! I know that some of you guys want Peter & Neal all mushy mushy, kissy kissy, but that wouldn't be White Collar. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Neal & Peter all mushy mushy, kissy kissy... but only in fanfictions. On the show I love the bromance, of course, but mostly I love the friction between them and I love the cons because that is the exciting part for me and I don't care if there are trash cans in a museum or not. The only question I had: What is so important about that glass-art-thing? LOL You see I'm not an art fan.

Neal is a con man. He might have been changed a bit in the last seasons being at Peter's side but he still has it in him to get interested in a con. And hey, who wouldn't like to do this heist with all the gadgets Mozzie came up with? Neal has a kid in him, so of course he wants to use the hat and the other stuff. (I'm still laughing my head off thinking about Neal with this sheriff badge!!!)

Of course I loved him being cautious at first, I loved him telling Mozzie off at first, I loved him telling Abigale off. He really has learned and he knows what Peter has sacrificed for him, so he doesn't want to do the heist. But then he was blackmailed and then Mozzie came up with the stuff.

He didn't go to Peter, that was not right because actually he trusts Peter, but there was still the possibility that Peter wouldn't believe him. So Neal wasn't sure that Peter would trust him. I can understand that Peter was disappointed when Neal told him. His reaction: "Next time try me" was perfect.

I loved all the dialogue (at least what I got so far).

Jeff Eastin said in an interview that there always will be the question of trust between Neal & Peter, so no one can't be disappointed of that episode. It will always be an issue!

I loved all the scenes with Diana and to tell you the truth, I always knew that she has a thing for Neal. Not love of course, but she likes him more than she wants to admit. I was so happy when she came to Neal and obviously spent the night with him talking. Maybe I write a fanfic about that :D.

To come to an end of this ranting:

Neal was perfect in this ep, struggling between honesty, trust issues, con and finding Sam to find out who murdered Ellen.

Peter was perfect in this ep, having trust issues, being the stern FBI Agent, who knows that he must not do anything wrong or his career will be over. I loved his "Something-Wrong-Face"! And it was funny that Neal AND Elizabeth pointed that out. They know their Peter too well!! ♥ LOL

Diana was perfect, having mixed emotions, being dumped, going to Neal.

Mozzie was NOT perfect! Didn't like that he's becoming the front man now. Is it jealousy because Neal wants to be like Peter? Is it neccessary that he talks Neal into a con? That is not the Mozzie I know from the last episodes. He came back to NY because he missed Neal but he should know that this is Neal's last chance. Why is he doing this to his friend? He should know that Neal is too weak to give up the conning for good but if he is not being tempted he might be succeeding.

But as I said in the beginning, exactly that's the show. And I love it. And now I'm going to watch this ep again to a) get more of the dialogue and b) because I liked it.

[elrhiarhodan]

It's great to get such an enthusiastic point of view.

I don't think people want all the tension to go away - not in the least.

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

I share your hate for Scott Free - but I really liked this one. I liked how they gave Diana character development without making the whole episode about her, I liked how the kept the whole thing ambigious in the end (because I like Neal better when he isn't all goody shoes), I liked the melancholie MB added to his portrayal of Neal.

My only complain is that Abigail was portrayed a little bit flat. She worked great in the scenes with Diana, but in the scenes with Neal, she wasn't threatening enough.

Don't mind the trash cans (I suspected that Mozzie placed the thing there - which would also explain why it was so conveniently empty), but I had a private lol about Neal pointing out that sandals are a bad choice for a heist, just to cut the the real thief wearing high heels.

[teaboyfan.livejournal.com]

This episode gave me emotional whiplash. Until close to the end I thought I was going to really hate it; it almost had me yelling at Neal "GO TELL PETER RIGHT THIS MINUTE!"

Then came Peter's instant reversal when he heard Neal talking about being blackmailed and refusing the flash drive, the scene in Peter's office when it looked like Neal came within inches of kissing him, and the absolute adoration in Neal's eyes. All of MB's expressions were perfect in this; it's the first time I thought he actually communicated emotion better than Tim, who is always awesome. I was especially impressed by the way he conveyed both deep grief and rigid control, and let us see both.

And then, Peter's speculating that maybe the whole thing was just a long con, and his holding back a second copy of the flash drive; layers within layers within layers. All in all, it played right into what Eastin and the actors have said since the beginning: these two men love each other very much, but they cannot totally trust each other to be honest. It may be that more and more often we will see deception and concealment intended to protect each other, but they will never be able to believe the other 100%. And as long as the underlying love is made obvious, I can handle a certain amount of mutual suspicion. I loved the comment above about the pot calling the kettle black.

I loved Diana in this, and was glad to see a bit of a softer side with Neal, although she had no trouble reverting to the hard-nosed agent when she thought he'd sold them out. She's so fiercely loyal to Peter that I think her whole relationship with Neal depends on whether she sees him as helping or hurting Peter professionally and personally.

And lastly (can't believe I've rambled on like this) I too really hate what they've done to Elizabeth this season. I didn't expect much from the first two episodes, because it wouldn't have made sense for her to go with Peter to the island. But we've hardly seen her at all, and when we have, she's just been totally blah. Where is the smart, tough, loving and insightful woman we had for the first three seasons? (forgetting the totally OOC Neighborhood Watch). I want my Elizabeth back!

[elrhiarhodan]

I was yelling the exact same thing.

And yes, it hurt that Peter thinks that maybe Neal's conning him - but to be honest - it's not out of character or unreasonable. Neal spent months lying and conning him about the treasure, he did the same thing when looking for Kate, then the music box, then Fowler.

Why should Peter think any differently now?

And I WANT MY ELIZABETH BACK!!!!!!!!!! (too)

[maiac.livejournal.com]

Neal was being very Neal, doing the wrong thing because it doesn't occur to him that he can do the right thing. Peter is also being Peter, distancing himself from Neal by mistrusting him. It saddens me, because the things Neal said to Abigail when Peter wasn't listening make it clear which side Neal has chosen. (Peter! You heard what Neal said when he didn't know you were listening! Accept it as the truth!)

I'm wishing the scriptwriters didn't think the story arc has to be all tragic and angsty and full of interpersonal tension. It's a cheap way to get an emotional reaction from the viewers, and it's unsatisfying.

[kerrylang.livejournal.com]

How come that Peter could listen to Neal's exchange with Abigail, anyway? Neal had to wear a prepared watch or a thingy in his ear, so how could that possibly happen? And if Neal had any sending advice then he knew that Peter could listen. So who does wonder about it, too? Or can anyone explain it to me?

[surreal-44.livejournal.com]

I loved this episode, top to bottom, even with the plot holes.

I only saw it once, so I'm confused about what Neal wanted from the Marshals.

Otherwise, I loved everyone in it. \o/

Late to the party, but my cable has been out since Monday night.

[maiac.livejournal.com]

Peter tried to get information about Ellen's case from the Marshals and they refused. That's what Neal wanted.

One of the many unexplained things about this episode is exactly how Abigail knew what Neal wanted and how to get it within the scope of a breaking into the Marshals' building and getting out before she got caught. I'm getting kind of tired of handwaving away the plot holes.

[xcpb.livejournal.com]

Maybe I've watched too many CSI's or maybe I'm just dumb.

If was Sam who was carrying Ellen's favorite flowers wrapped in paper, why couldn't fingerprints be gotten off the paper? Isn't Sam a cop? Aren't all police personnel printed for the various databases? I even yelled " run the freaking prints!". I need to go back and watch but I don't think Sam was wearing gloves as he ran away.

Threw me completely out of the episode. Yeah, I watched the eye candy but...meh...story was unbelievable from the beginning for me.

[elrhiarhodan]

Hmmm - very good point.

Except that if he's an undercover cop, wouldn't his fingerprints be flagged and kept out of the databases?

[elainasaunt.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one to think there was grudging admiration in what Peter said at the end? Peter and Neal have always played this game, after all, and it's never going to totally stop being the basis of their relationship, as I see it. I'm not sure it even matters whether Neal really was conning Peter; the chief thing is that Peter gives him credit for being just that clever - and of course the show makes sure we know Peter is ALWAYS smart enough to keep up with him.

[elrhiarhodan]

Oooh - VERY INTERESTING POINT.

I am going to take that and run with it.

May be bunnied for an episode tag here.