elrhiarhodan: (Default)
[personal profile] elrhiarhodan
I was alerted to this article - The Boy Who Lived Forever - on [livejournal.com profile] ariadnes_string's LJ. It's making the rounds, certainly - but if you haven't read it, you should. TIME has published a remarkably favorable view of fan fiction and the people (mostly women) who write it.

Right now fan fiction is still the cultural equivalent of dark matter: it's largely invisible to the mainstream, but at the same time, it's unbelievably massive. Fan fiction predates the Internet, but the Web has made it exponentially easier to talk and be heard, and it holds hundreds of millions of words of fan fiction. There's fan fiction based on books, movies, TV shows, video games, plays, musicals, rock bands and board games. There's fan fiction based on the Bible. In most cases, the quantity of fan fiction generated by a given work is volumetrically larger than the work itself; in some cases, the quality is higher than that of the original too.

The timing of the article's publication is very interesting - it's to coincide with the release of the final Harry Potter movie. And if you ever thought that White Collar is a substantially sized fandom, consider this - the ff.net archive has over a half MILLION Harry Potter stories.

Date: 2011-07-08 10:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeethyme4me.livejournal.com
Thanks so much for sharing it, Elr! I'm so happy to see that the writer is treating fanfiction with respect, maybe a teeny bit of awe. :-)

Date: 2011-07-08 11:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidchild67.livejournal.com
fan fiction based on the bible? I totally ship Jesus/Judas now, man....

Date: 2011-07-09 12:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidchild67.livejournal.com
IKR? Think of the seksi possibilities of a man that can walk on water...

Date: 2011-07-09 12:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeethyme4me.livejournal.com
And the man that would betray him. ANGST!!!!!!!!

Date: 2011-07-09 12:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidchild67.livejournal.com
And STIGMATA!!! It's the original h/c story, man!!!

Date: 2011-07-09 12:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidchild67.livejournal.com
Jesus/Judas/Mary Magdelene is my new OT3

Date: 2011-07-09 12:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidchild67.livejournal.com
*makes grabby hands*

Spike did say id he had a nickel for every vamp that said he was at the crucifixion, he'd be rich.

You know, Jesus is hot - he's got that swimmer's build...look at him up on that cross...

Date: 2011-07-09 01:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] attackfish.livejournal.com
Oh, please. If every vampire who said he was at the crucifixion was actually there, it would've been like Woodstock. I was actually at Woodstock. That was a weird gig. I fed off a flower person and I spent the next six hours watchin' my hand move.

Best line ever.

Date: 2011-07-09 01:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidchild67.livejournal.com
I thank you for the correction. It IS the best line ever :-D

Date: 2011-07-09 01:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeethyme4me.livejournal.com
I was thinking the same thing! But I thought the Jesus/Mary thing before I knew there was Bible fanfic. ;-)

Date: 2011-07-09 01:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] attackfish.livejournal.com
It's all about the Eve/Lilith, BB

Date: 2011-07-09 01:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeethyme4me.livejournal.com
Ooooh, WORD! That is FTW.

Date: 2011-07-09 10:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidchild67.livejournal.com
Someone needs to write that.

Date: 2011-07-09 01:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] attackfish.livejournal.com
Oh, they do.

Date: 2011-07-09 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lionessvalenti.livejournal.com
It's all about David/Jonathan. That's one where the subtext is very... texty.

Date: 2011-07-09 12:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidchild67.livejournal.com
Good point. And you know David had a giant cock. Bathsheba could barely handle it.

Actually, there's a novel by Joseph Heller called God Knows, of David's life told from his POV, and a large part of it was how much he loved Jonathan. I can't remember how slashy it got, though it's mos def there - must find it again and re-read.

Date: 2011-07-09 12:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lionessvalenti.livejournal.com
It doesn't matter how slashy it was, it's all about how slashy you make it. ;)

Date: 2011-07-09 03:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] queenaeron.livejournal.com
/Steps out of the way of the lightening bolt about to strike!

*snort*

You are going straight to hell little girl, straight to hell!

LOL

That was an awesome comment!

Date: 2011-07-09 10:14 am (UTC)
ext_462806: (Default)
From: [identity profile] veronicasleeps.livejournal.com
I actually might have read one of those on Adultfanfiction.net those.

Don't ask me what the ship was, cause I honestly don't know.

Date: 2011-07-09 02:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elainasaunt.livejournal.com
The centurion and his beloved servant. Like Jonathan and David, it's practically canon, according to many biblical commentators.

Date: 2011-07-09 12:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] attackfish.livejournal.com
Speaking as someone who started out in HP fandom, fandoms that big are a whole different animal. Something like whitecollarfic would be unimaginable. People make giant thematic reclists. Specific favorite tropes become the size of most other fandoms. Slashers, het writers, and gen writers barely speak. And my favorite ship still manages to be tiny. (Sirius/Snape in case you're interested. I like my slash antagonistic)

Date: 2011-07-09 01:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidchild67.livejournal.com
Gosh, that sounds kind of...unwieldy. Do/did you like it? I'm interested in the dynamics there.

I'm glad our fandom is relatively teensy.

Date: 2011-07-09 01:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] attackfish.livejournal.com
You know how people in cities often end up having a neighborhood that functions like a small town? Large fandoms break into neighborhoods. Sometimes it's a really popular fic writer who has her own fanbase, sometimes it's an interest, like time travel fics, sometimes it's a character, pairing or gen pairing (there is a sizable archive just dedicated to genfic about Harry and Snape interacting), or a time period (Marauders, Tom Riddle's school days, Dumbledore's adolescence, the founders) but either way, you end up with subgroups that each function like separate fandoms. Also, I have never run across a prompt fest that wasn't designed to create long oneshots and chapterfic, but that might just be a quirk.

Date: 2011-07-09 04:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aisle-one.livejournal.com
I played in HP fandom for awhile and I loved it. HP fandom tended to be known for crazy wank here and there, but I found the community pretty welcoming (I joined the slashers party, particularly for the Harry/Snape pairing.) It was also a really stimulating experience for a reader and as a writer. The talent was proportional to the fandom size and these days I miss the craving of reading HP fics and writing them.

Date: 2011-07-09 05:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] attackfish.livejournal.com
Yes, the thing I liked best about HP fandom was that no matter what, there was somebody else in the fandom who liked just exactly what you liked and would be thrilled to have you as a friend.

I started one of the smallish epic wanks in HP. It's terrifying, and I did it deliberately.

Date: 2011-07-09 05:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aisle-one.livejournal.com
I also found the fandom to be really open with exploring various kinks in a very nonjudgmental way. It was really refreshing. Which is not to say that the previous fandoms I read or wrote in were judgmental, but the stories were certainly more inhibited. I enjoyed the creative freedom that were largely representative in HP fics (and, again, in the slashers community, LOL.)

I started one of the smallish epic wanks in HP. LOL, really? Which one?

Date: 2011-07-09 05:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] attackfish.livejournal.com
WC is a kinky fandom, but there are sections of HP where, whoo boy. Made it a bit hard for me, because I have a huge thing for gen captivity fic. Captivity fic in HP fandom is an excuse for porn. Not that there needs to be an excuse...

One about disability and H/C, mostly about the fact that I was writing Snape acquiring a disability, and people kept complaining because he was a prickly bastard and disabled people obviously are never like that. It went multifandom pretty quickly, and i had to delete a lot of really nasty comments about how I just hated H/C and I was harshing their squee. And about how my not wanting to cure him spoiled their happy ending.
Edited Date: 2011-07-09 05:37 am (UTC)

Date: 2011-07-09 05:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aisle-one.livejournal.com
I agree that WC is a pretty open fandom, too.

I missed those discussions. I can probably find them via metafandom? What did the arguments boil down to? It sounds like it was related to mishandling the characterization of disabled people in fics. I bet it was terrifying. I certainly would have been overwhelmed by it. I was around for the review wank (which sprung from oulangi's reviews) and that got pretty heated.

Date: 2011-07-09 06:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] attackfish.livejournal.com
My arguement was simple 101 stuff, disability doesn't change people's personalities (unless we're talking head injury or something), and that when every disability is cured at the end to make a happy ending possible, its disheartening to real people like me who will never be cured and have to learn how to make a happy ending with a disability. The counter-arguments didn't get picked up by metafandom, but they basically amounted to "but disability is a bad thing! Having it cured at the end is the only way to have a happy ending." and "but cripple is a fine word, you're just too PC." And of course "You just hate H/C!" which is manifestly untrue. And one person said that they liked writing disabled characters because the disability made them more approachable. This was quickly countered by one writer who talked about how disability in fics was used to make characters more cuddly, and how disabled people in real life had to put up with being seen as more cuddly too.

Date: 2011-07-09 06:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aisle-one.livejournal.com
Wow to those comments people made - and not as in "wow, awesome" but "wow, that's fucking unbelievable."

It was brave of you to tackle that. Personally, I appreciate it when stories honestly portray and deal with the reality of people's circumstances -- as in what you said, learning how to make a happy ending with a disability. I get that fanfic is fantasy and play and I'm not undermining those aspects of it. Then again, when a writer makes the conscious effort to present a story well and sensitively (and I don't mean as in kid gloves, but with keen perception), I enjoy them inasmuch as tidily resolved fics. Of course, I'm an angst fan so my "happily ever afters" tend to be bittersweet anyway. I like the depiction of real emotions and stories that clean up too easily are generally unsatisfying to me.

I also hate the misuse of the term "PC." It's disheartening when people throw it against things that should validly be spoken up about.

I'm going to hunt around for meta re this at metafandom. Thanks for sharing the information and talking about it with me.

Date: 2011-07-09 10:15 am (UTC)
ext_462806: (Default)
From: [identity profile] veronicasleeps.livejournal.com
Good old HP fandom. I started out in there. Ten years ago.

Date: 2011-07-09 11:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elainasaunt.livejournal.com
The comments here about Bible fanfic are great! I loved the article, which someone linked me to yesterday - and I immediately passed it on to a couple of my non-fandom friends who, on the rare occasions when I mention my involvement in fandom, tend to get these infuriatingly patient looks on their faces.

I kept waiting for the writer of the article to bring up Calvin & Hobbes fic, which is one of my favorite discoveries. Not many stories in it, but what's there is cherce.

Date: 2011-07-09 01:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidchild67.livejournal.com
*makes more grabby hands*

wherewherewhere?

Date: 2011-07-09 01:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elainasaunt.livejournal.com
On the AO3 (http://archiveofourown.org/tags/Calvin%20*a*%20Hobbes/works) mostly.

Date: 2011-07-09 01:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elainasaunt.livejournal.com
Be sure not to miss the Inception crossover one.

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